We all learn something every day.
What I learned today, is actually so simple, I could slap myself for not seeing it before now.
If one person believes that gay people are born gay, and another person believes that gay people choose to be gay, then any comments made in that debate/discussion stem from very different origins and will be received differently, making any discussion mostly difficult if not impossible.
Example - I believe I'm born gay. Someone else may believe I choose to be gay so he/she condemns my choice.
Since I KNOW :-) I was born this way, I do not perceive it as condemnation of a choice but condemnation of my very being. Hence it qualifies as hate speech to me.
And then they think that 'disagreement over choices' is labeled as hate speech.
Points of view, the origins of where one is coming from makes all the difference. In all the discussions I've had my whole life, I've never had it fall into place like that, for me to so easily see. Our entire struggle obviously hinges on the misconception that being gay is a choice.
Duh, Steve.
7 comments:
I've always believed I was born gay. Even before I had any thoughts at all about sex I knew that I was different. At 9 years old I had heard the word somewhere and my mother explained to me what it meant. At the time I thought, "oh! thats me" and it had nothing whatsoever to do with sex. I didn't really start thinking about that for a few more years. There are quite a few gay people in my family and it seems to run maternally so I've always suspected there must be a genetic connection. My youngest brother is gay, an aunt, a great aunt, a cousin or two, and now most recently my 16 year old nephew. My sister long suspected it and eventually dragged it out of him :-)
To comment on a previous post you made, one of my biggest pet peeves is the assumption that being gay is only about sex and nothing else. It always really infuriates me to hear people say things like that. Not only is being gay about love and family, but I think it is also about being part of a community and a culture. If you listen to adult children of gay parents talk about their lives, some refer to them selves as "erotically straight, but culturally queer" When we go to an event of our local gay parents group, it could be called a "gay" event but no sex is to be seen anywhere.
I could go on and on. I've even run into gay people who make this mistake. Some gay men we used to know who dropped us when we adopted. I remember at least one conversation where they thought it was unfair to the child to expose them to our sex lives and also to potential future ridicule in school. You know what, ridicule happens for a thousand reasons, if it's not this it'll be something else. And what sex lives? After becoming a parent, that sometimes doesn't happen for weeks, who has the energy with a toddler in the house? We're still gay.
I just happened upon your blog and the title of your post (Born Gay vs. Choice) got my attention.
I understand that you think that born vs. choice is an important issue. You wrote, "Our entire struggle obviously hinges on the misconception that being gay is a choice."
Although I can understand why you believe that, I don't think it is correct. I don't know what causes some people discrimitate, but I do know they will discriminate against others regardless of whether or not they choose to belong to the group being discriminated against.
For example, people discriminate on racial/ethnic basis; clearly not a choice -- and also based on religion; a choice. Also, I would guess that those who discriminate (at least here in the United States) don't just discriminate against one group - they discriminate against lots of groups including groups whose members choose to belong and those who are members by birth. In other words, discriminators don't discriminate in their discrimination! :-)
I am excited to find out about all the genetic discoveries being made including those regarding human sexuality; however, I don't think it will have a material impact on wheter or not someone is going to discriminate against gay/lesbian people.
Just one positive note, don't forget that the vast majority of people in the United States do not discriminate against gay people. Some do of course, but no matter who you are, someone is going to discriminate against you .
Excellent point Tom, about discrimination in regards to racism. I would have to withdraw my initial thought that nature vs. nurture is at the crux of the discrimination we face, although I think it's the basis for a lot of people, clearly it's not the basis for all. Excellent point.
Steve (green dads), I completely agree. If only I could have a fraction of the sex I get condemned for. Sigh.
As it stands now, Kristin is out of school Friday AND Monday for President's Day. And it's raining outside. So I am stuck inside a house for 4 days with two large soon-to-be claustrophobic dogs and a preschooler armed with two bags of Valentine's Day candy. It's not looking pretty.
I would agree with Tom that discriminators are going to find a reason to discriminate regardless. However, I think there is a larger issue here. The conservative right uses the "choice" argument to work against equality in the law for the gay community. One of the arguments floated around against gay marriage is the claim that we already can get married if we would just "choose" to be straight. The whole idea of the conservative right referring to gay rights as "special rights" is based on the mistaken idea that if we wanted to, we could just choose to be straight. My opinion, but I think it's why we need to work against the whole choice argument.
I'm home too Steve. Came down sick with whatever bug D had earlier in the week. Needed to rest from work, although with Monday a holiday I'm going to be very busy on Tuesday.
Get better soon! Kristin has a habit, when she has a cold, of coughing on EVERY edible thing in the house. At the dinner table, nothing is safe. I think she's given us every cold she's had, for me, I know that's the case.
Hello my name is Merle Dean Shamblin and I would like to be your new friend. I sure could use somebody to chat with. I am a 47 year old long haul truck driver who currently lives in Duncan Oklahoma. Dec 8th 1960 I was born in Fairview Oklahoma. Moved to Caddo and Washita counties where I attended school at Colony Hydro and Weatherford. My parents Malvin and Wanda Shamblin were cotton and peanut farmers. Dad died in 99 from lung cancer. Graduated from SWOSU with a business degree. My two sisters are LaDonna Hubert and Malva Burrahm. Dennis is my brother. I have been a truck driver for 14 years and have driven 2 million paid miles. I have received many safe driving awards over the years. I am single and have never been married. I have a wide range of interests and am pretty much an open book. Currently I drive a 2006 Freightliner for a major carrier. I dont go to Canada very often. I dont have a dedicated route so I run the entire lower 48. I enjoy reading cinema music sports travel etc
Hi Merle and welcome to my blog! I grew up in Tulsa. Feel free to chat anytime.
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